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Chess Originated In Africa


  • 11 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #41

    royalbishop

    What?

    Am i still on chess.com or have i come to some alternate reality. I have to stop visiting these threads. I feel my intelligence slipping with each visit.

  • 11 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #42

    anpu3

    This reminds me of the old running gag on STOS.  You know.  Where Chekov was always telling everyone..  'it vas inwented in Russia first'

  • 11 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #43

    royalbishop

    So is there a town called Chessville and who is the mayo?. If somebody say their is a tale of gold chess board that will reveal all the secrets of great play i will visit you and chain you to a chess board and force you to play checkers for 48 consecutive hrs using the chess pieces.

  • 11 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #44

    Ziryab

    I know only that I played chess in Baghdad, where it was popular, and that I took it with me to Cordoba, where it had not been played prior to my arrival. Inasmuch as the article mentions my actions, I cannot conclude that the author is wholly in error.

  • 11 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #45

    royalbishop

    I wonder did they have debates over the game like we have at chess.com.  Sure they had their equivalent of a GM.

  • 11 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #46

    waynet

    There are ways to deduce the origins of many things. One of which is by the use of etymology.

    For example, the name in Persia was the word chatrang, this is a derivation of the Sanskrit word chaturanga (meaning four arms of the military). The Arabians further evolved the word to shatranj.

    The first documented use of the word in Middle Persia was between 300 and 700 A.D. The reference was to a Shah in the third century as a shatranj master.

    The evidence does seem to suggest that the origins were from the sub-continent.

    Clearly, in the pictures proposed as evidence, there are to be games that seem to appear similar to chess however, the rules of such may or may not be significantly differing, enough to negate the concept.

  • 4 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #47

    Annabelle

    Eberulf wrote:

    It seems disingenuous to equate Africa and Egypt and give credit to "Africa" because complex board games orginated in Egypt.  Egypt was clearly tied to the Mediterranean World.  Ancient Egypt should be considered part of the Near East, (along with Assyria,The Babylonian Empire,Palestine,etc.)  And after Alexander the Great, Alexandria is in the sphere of Mediterranean Europe. North Africa was the breadbasket of Rome and when it was lost to the Vandals, it was considered part of the Roman Empire that was lost.  The fringe of Africa along the Mediterranean is part of the Mediterranean World. Let's be real about this: Sub-Saharan Africa is not part of the picture here.   It would be like saying that Germanic tribes in Scandinavia were really influencing everything happening in Southern Europe behind the scenes. Well I guess they did ultimately, but not until they were actually in Southern Europe. The most efficient form of travel in the ancient world was via water, and that is why the Mediterranean was the focus of everything.  (It is why for example Russia was irrelevant for centuries until Peter the Great created the fresh-water port of Saint Petersburg on the Baltic.)

    Also the second article on Ethiopian "chess" says unequivocally they got it from the Arabs:

    "This counsellor moves diagonally, but only one square at a time; therefore the "Fers" is the same as the "Vizier" in the Arabic game of Shatranj. This is a clear indication of the fact that the Ethiopians adopted Shatranj and transformed it into the African brand of chess they call Senterej."

     So putting the two articles together, you can deduce the chain is Egypt->Arabia->Ethiopia. 

    Thanks to the article, was searching for something relating to this article and then read this comment. It made me laugh, clearly a misunderstanding about your Geography knowledge. Egypt is part of Africa. I think it's so easy in our modern days [of computers] to look up a google map. I will excuse the American education system, but I don't think you can blame your teachers/education system. It's more a fact of being ignorant. 

  • 4 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #48

    Irontiger

    Estragon wrote:

    Geography isn't entirely physical (...)

    Voice of wisdom.

    Some people seem to be taken that issue personally, as if inventions of the time were reflecting today's creativity (to avoid saying superiority) of some people over others.

    But even if chess originated near the African Great Lakes (which it did not), "Africa" in the implied meaning of "today's countries belonging to the African continent, in that they form a roughly homogeneous cultural sphere" is wrong, because that area did not exist at the time. It's just as if you credited the European Union with Archimedes' inventions, and deduced that people with a Schengen-country passport are a superior people (this claim might not sound so ridiculous in 50 years).

     

    As for some dubious claims :

    Slaves did not build pyramids. No. It is just false.

    Moreover, unlike what most people think, slave labor is highly unefficient because the "workers" have absolutely no incentive to work well. It was already pointed out by Adam Smith, and Stalin provided us with a bigger scale experiment, aka Gulag, and the results speak for themselves

  • 4 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #49

    Aksyonov

    Annabelle wrote:
    Eberulf wrote:

    It seems disingenuous to equate Africa and Egypt and give credit to "Africa" because complex board games orginated in Egypt.  Egypt was clearly tied to the Mediterranean World.  Ancient Egypt should be considered part of the Near East, (along with Assyria,The Babylonian Empire,Palestine,etc.)  And after Alexander the Great, Alexandria is in the sphere of Mediterranean Europe. North Africa was the breadbasket of Rome and when it was lost to the Vandals, it was considered part of the Roman Empire that was lost.  The fringe of Africa along the Mediterranean is part of the Mediterranean World. Let's be real about this: Sub-Saharan Africa is not part of the picture here.   It would be like saying that Germanic tribes in Scandinavia were really influencing everything happening in Southern Europe behind the scenes. Well I guess they did ultimately, but not until they were actually in Southern Europe. The most efficient form of travel in the ancient world was via water, and that is why the Mediterranean was the focus of everything.  (It is why for example Russia was irrelevant for centuries until Peter the Great created the fresh-water port of Saint Petersburg on the Baltic.)

    Also the second article on Ethiopian "chess" says unequivocally they got it from the Arabs:

    "This counsellor moves diagonally, but only one square at a time; therefore the "Fers" is the same as the "Vizier" in the Arabic game of Shatranj. This is a clear indication of the fact that the Ethiopians adopted Shatranj and transformed it into the African brand of chess they call Senterej."

     So putting the two articles together, you can deduce the chain is Egypt->Arabia->Ethiopia. 

    Thanks to the article, was searching for something relating to this article and then read this comment. It made me laugh, clearly a misunderstanding about your Geography knowledge. Egypt is part of Africa. I think it's so easy in our modern days [of computers] to look up a google map. I will excuse the American education system, but I don't think you can blame your teachers/education system. It's more a fact of being ignorant. 

    Just differing views of what's important in geography.

    Some people will equate Egypt and its grandeur with Africa, based solely on its physical location, and be entirely reasonable in doing so.  It does in fact sit right there in Africa.  Just the same way there's clearly a physical entity called "America," and it lies on the North American continent.

    Others view geography through a cultural lens, and justifiably claim that Egypt was far more strongly influenced by the culture and politics of the Mediterranean and Middle East.  Just as America, Australia, etc. have no real cultural claim to anything of historical value, being essentially overflow spots for European imperialists.

  • 4 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #50

    alec98

    Ra_Neter wrote:

    Chess Originated In Africa
     

    Sorry no it did not Chess came from India then it spread to Persia  (Modern day Iran) when the Muslims conqured the Persians they adopted it and they were the ones who spread it to Europe  H.J.R Murray spent over 10 years researching and writing a History of Chess in pain staking detail it's a collasal work over 900 pages long. He taught himself Arabic to decipher ancient texts and documents. He traced the history of the game from it's Indian beginnings all the way to the end of the 19th century.

    http://www.amazon.com/History-Chess-Original-1913-Edition/dp/1620870622/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388329654&sr=8-1&keywords=a+history+of+chess

    Alexander Kotov in The Soviet Chess School (1983 book not the 1950's Soviet School of Chess which is a different work) affirms in his book that Chess came directly from Persia or Arabia to Russia around the 11th-12th century.

  • 4 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #51

    badger_song

    I don't find the OP's argument convincing.

  • 4 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #52

    ancor3

    Dear Africa,

    Why is it that everytime someone talks about you there's always a racially toned flamewar going on in the comment section? Not blaming you, just want to know.

    One love and much respect,

    ancor3

  • 4 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #53

    Annabelle

    ancor3 wrote:

    Dear Africa,

    Why is it that everytime someone talks about you there's always a racially toned flamewar going on in the comment section. Not blaming you, just want to know.

    One love and much respect,

    ancor3

    Hi Ancor3

    LOL! Ignorance.

  • 4 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #54

    milospantovic

    What is exact number of grandmasters from Africa?

  • 4 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #55

    jargonaught

    I thought it was India

  • 4 miesięcy temu · Cytuj · #56

    ancor3

    Annabelle wrote:
    ancor3 wrote:

    Dear Africa,

    Why is it that everytime someone talks about you there's always a racially toned flamewar going on in the comment section. Not blaming you, just want to know.

    One love and much respect,

    ancor3

    Hi Ancor3

    LOL! Ignorance.

    Care to elaborate on your provocative comment?


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